is getting them back to work. it is not going to be obama. i have to go. i am throwing it over there, some do not worry. thank you all for being with us, (h+an susteren is standg by to go on the record. we have an important show tomorrow night. we will see you. greta: tonight, the tea party express is thundering down the highway. next up? las cruces, new mexico, our reporter, griff. >>ç çthey are fired up not jut because of the chilis. we will be back at the bottom of the hour for a report from moscow says -- from lasçç cru. greta: we have much more later,

but first, karl rove goes on the record. >> hey, greta. how areç you?4zmerñ ggreta a cs that only 31% of american -- greta: çça cbs news poll says that 67% say that these ideas are confusing. this is grossly unfair to the american people. what do you think? >> no, i thinkçç that is pret- people have heard a lot. they have been told things that they do not think are accurate, so i can see that. in fact, what was interesting to me was -- ççgreta: i do not mean that te are the numbers. i think it is deplorable that it has not been adequately communicated that we do not have a clear idea. that is what i think's is unfair. it is justç beingç shoved down their throats.

you should be able to make it clear. >> i absolutely agree with you, and this is a big, huge, complex piece of legislation that has not been debatedç in a normal way. normally, we would have give and take between the parties. and then we have got the democrats in control of congress, the house,ç the sena, conversation, and they are saying things that the american people do not think are true. it is a counter argument, so when the president gets up there and says it willç@)=q add to te deficit, and the president starts saying things to the contrary, it really undermines the case and causes people to say, "you know what? i do not like this." çç"i think it is confusing, nt clear." greta: i am not convinced that the members of congress really understand what this is about,

because i have gone through a number of the pages,çç if notl of the pages, but it is incomprehensible, and i think a smart person can write a bill so that everyone of us can understand it, and this whole fight that we have as to whether itçç is good or bad, that is silly, because we are fighting over something that is incomprehensible. >> you are right. part of that is deliberate. there are things in there that are deliberately hard to çunder hnd because somebody wants to point something in a certain direction, or to have a certain flexibility, and, again, we are dealing with a big, complex thing, where 14% is going to be controlled toçç t. our health care is 15% of our gdp, so it is a big, sprawling part of our economy, and then you have people who are not transparent or open in their conversations, and then youç he with powerful committee chairmen, and in the house,

nancy pelosi had no discussion. it was voted on with a very strong crack of the whipçç ovr the heads of the democrats, and as a result, they are either ill positioned to defend it or describe it, and five or six months later, the american people are way upside down on this bill. greta: ççthere is a lot of tak show politics in washington, both sides, -- there is a lot of gotcha politics. after the recess, i wished -- he is a smart man. if he read it, i think he would agree that you can't expect it to be implemented down the road if it is not clear. >> he let this bill be drafted in the house by democrats only.

they busted through the only democrat boats. -- they pushed it through only with democrats votes. we have to fashion a bill that will get the largest amount of votes. he outsourced it. he put nancy pelosi in charge. he was led by waxman. they shoved it down the throats of the house. he said he would herald the process as it moves through the senate. it was not a bipartisan. it undermined the belief that he was an effective, strong leader. he has a hands-off attitude that has caused people to believe that they are not being told the truth. the things he has said has reinforced that. greta: if it does get past not

in a bipartisan fashion and it turns out that he is a harold, doesn't matter that it is not bipartisan or not? >> -- does it matter that it is not a bipartisan or not? >> let's say they get something that looks like the house bill. this is something that the american people do not want. it is problematic. we will have two years of tax increases in medicare cuts before we see one word on the health coverage. all they do is collect revenue for two years. in the program gets to be paid. -- then the program gets to be paid. the surplus has been eaten up in years later. the annual cost is larger than

the regular volume provided by tax increases or medicare cuts. that is what the plan says. they had a place of of vulnerability. there are those that will go home and will have to face constituents during the 2010 election having voted for something that the american people are against 2-1. they are talking about something smaller in the house bill. i do not see a good outcome on either one of these things. i do not have an interesting idea to restart the process. there was a time earlier this year when it was a smart move for the president. greta: what is going to happen when the recess ends? where are we going to be three weeks from now? >> on the 15th of september is

when the house and senate finance committee have set up a target to produce a bill. i think they will do so by the 15th. the next deadline, it may not happen. the democrats will have to make a decision. the white house will have to make a decision. are they going to try to pass this in the senate through a conventional way which would require 60 votes. they have 59 democrats or independents. will they get a temporary senator from massachusetts? even if they get a 60th senator, is senator bird . to be there for it? -- senator byrd going to be there for it? if they do not get 60 votes, then they will face a tough

decision on whether they could pass it using reconciliation which is usually used to reconcile different budget items. if they go that way, it has its own set of problems. it will not apply to all of the bill. parliamentary objections could strip out parts of the bill. it would allow the republicans, one judge from new hampshire has already begun to prepare himself to make the objections to slow up the process. even if they succeed passing the bill, it is one to be making a change without a national consensus, the parties are badly split. it would be a big problem for the democrats and for this program. greta: let's say you are 48 years old and you have worked

for a company for a long time. the company has gone under and you are out of work. you cannot get a job. you have a health problem and now you have medical bills piling up. what you do about that person? >> we have medicaid which may cover that individual because they are out of work and do not have an income. we are worried about the person who is working in a company and is in between, they make too much money to qualify ofor medicaid and the company does not provide health care. or the person who has lost a job and is not eligible for medicaid because of assets or health care even if they have the resources because of a pre- existing condition. there are things we can do to solve that problem. think about it in this context. 46 million people without health coverage.

nearly 10 million of them are illegal aliens. we do not want the taxpayer to provide for coverage for them. so now we have 36 million. 31 million of that number either make three other% or greater of the poverty level, $50,000 a year. they can afford health insurance, most of them are young people. they will sell the insurer. a bunch of those people. then we have a bunch of people about 14 million who are eligible for medicaid or a children's health insurance program but are not enrolled. when you look at it, we have 5 million people who fit the program, the model that you made which is someone who is working or not working but can get

coverage by an existing government program or some version the market. that is where we are focusing our efforts. greta: next sarah palin. we will hear about one person and his views on sarah palin. and there is cruelty. it wears a suit and tie. it mocks middle-class americans. right now, it may be happening to you and you do not know yet. we will tell you coming up. years. and who doesn't want value for their dollar? been true since the day i made my first dollar. where is that dollar? i got it out to show you... uhh... was it rather old and wrinkly? yeah, you saw it?

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greta: some quick topics. former gov. sarah palin is going to hong kong to give a speech at a huge financial conference.

some former presidents have done that. it is a big conference. is this her doing what a lot of people do making a living with a speech? >> she is going to have a lot of these opportunities over the next year or so. it is an honorable profession. i do some speaking myself. ronald reagan made speeches. richard nixon made speeches after his defeat in california as governor. this is an honorable craft for a politician. what is interesting is is she going to be judged by each of these audiences on the quality of presentation. she is not going to be able to go on a plane and scribble of a few notes. she is going to have to figure out what she is going to say or questions she might be asked, do

the research of thinking and writing so that when she makes the speeches, people say she is an impressive individual not only in how she has conducted herself but what she said. greta: she still stroke -- draws so much attention. all of the network's clamoring to talk to her and people asking for speeches. it is incredible. >> absolutely. i am not surprised. this is a woman who jumped on the state for 63 days and energize republicans. it was a different candidate and what we had seen before. she has a lot of potential. she has a lot of opportunities. lots of speaking engagements to make an impact. people just above one standard when she ran for vice president. her expectations are going to be higher when she is talked about as a prospective presidential candidate. greta: i have her picture up on the screen.

we found this high school picture of you from high school. >> i went to high school in salt lake city utah. it was a reunion this weekend. i was a nerdy kid. greta: you referred to yourself as a nerd. were you in nerd? >> i was. i carried around a briefcase. i had a pocket protector. greta: a real pocket protector? >> absolutely. i was on the debate team. i was a little guy. i have a high, squeaky voice. i had thick glasses. greta: no girlfriends in high school? >> i got an e-mail from a girl that i remembered that we went to the junior prom together. she was very nice to say that she went to the prom with me. i was in error.

-- i was a nerd. i ran around with the debate team people. we were a group unto ourselves. greta: i imagine you have a good time at the reunion. >> i had a great time. i kept in touch with some friends over the years. i helped organize a reunion with one of them. there were three couples who dated in high school and got married shortly after high school and stayed together. we had a wonderful dinner the night before. a was a student body officer my senior year. each of those couples was a student body officer with me. we got together with our student body president who lives in vancouver, washington. we have not seen him in many years.

we had a wonderful evening. it was a lot of fun to do. greta: [unintelligible] >> i know who supplied the picture to you. i will have to have some sharp words with my staff when i return to washington. greta: , as when you get back to washington. thank you. -- call us when you get to washington. thank you. these are pictures from the tea party express. why did the ceo of whole foods disagree with president obama? action three. action three. it's critical that i stick to my medication. i cannot be one of the 61 million americans

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[captioning made possible by fox greta: they are angry about health care, taxes and the exploding size of our government. they want the government to get their nose out of their business. the tea party express is rolling down the highway. 35 cities in 16 days. the final stop will be right here in washington, d.c. where are they tonight? our reporter has more.

>> this is the ninth stop, the fifth day in new mexico. they love their country. [applause] they are worried about the direction this country is headed. they are worried about the bail out. it is very resemblance of what we saw earlier today in albuquerque, new mexico. let's listen on what happened earlier today. ♪ [applause] >> what is your name? >> jan hayes. >> why are you out here today? >> i am worried about our country. we are fed up. we are going to do something about it. >>usa, usa! >> my kids and my grandchildren

cannot afford what is going on in washington right now. >> we are not black, we are not white, we are american. >> there are shocking things in this health care bill. >> this wraps up all of our of jackson's -- objections in one nice and neat package. >> i believe washington seems to be lost in off-track. >> i want more people to get more involved and understand their government. [applause] >> there is an important thing to point out. these people are traveling all across the country. the events are being organized by local people. i enjoined by mary johnson. he organized this tea party. why did you do it? >> i wanted us to unite. i wanted us to have one cohesive

voice and shine in be heard. >> there are about a thousand people here. did you think you would have this response? >> i was shooting for 1000. i am extremely happy with what i have gotten. it is over and above my imagination. >> barack obama carried this state, 57%. is this a message that is going to resound to washington? do you think it will make them change? >> most definitely. >> how committed are you to seeing this through? >> i will do it until it is fixed. [applause] >> they are shouting, kill the bill. greta: can you say if any of them voted for president obama in november? i am curious to see.

>> they sure did. do you say this sign? i have voters remorse. did you vote for president obama? >> i did. >> you changed your mind. >> there is no change. he has radical views. he is spending way too much money. there is no transparency. >> are you seeing a lot of independence coming out or republicans? >> this is bipartisan. it is everybody coming out. everybody has a voice and concern. they want to be heard. >> this is interesting, how many are professional protesters? how many are here for the first time? [applause] i do not know about you, but it

seems like this is legitimate and these people want their voices heard. mary is committed to doing it all the way till next year. greta: is there a counter protest? are there people there with the opposite view? >> we have not seen any counter protesters? we have not seen any. last night, we saw a few supporting health care specifically. this is about a number of issues, bailout, health care, taxes. you name it, they are up said about it and now here. greta: what is the next destination of this? >> we are about 40 miles north of the border. we are closer to el paso, texas tomorrow. then arkansas, tennessee, kentucky. this bus express will go all the

way to washington. [applause] greta: the viewers understand you are not on this bus. you are following in reporting about what is going on, is that right? >> that is correct. i have not been on the bus yet. i am just documenting following these people. it is an interesting movement. it may grow. i want to document it and see it as much as we can. we are not on the bus. i am simply reporting on this. we might try to get, perhaps tomorrow an inside look on how the bus works and the players on it. greta: i would love to see a camera get inside of that bus and i am curious to buy that what they are talking about inside. thanks for an outside look. we will see you. >> i will get on that bus.

greta: it sounds like that might happen. thank you. people talk to you tomorrow night on your next stop. up next, what is a buy-cott? it is not the same as a boycott. and this could be happening to you right there. -- right now. it is coming up.

greta: it is a buy-cott. some are calling for a boycott of whole foods. people support the ceo are

fighting back against the boycotters calling for a buycott of the company. this person is a cult organizer of the buycott. what is it? >> it is the exact opposite of the boycott. we are not going to punish whole foods by withholding our dollars. we will support them because they have held up the free market principles. we have some really good groceries with our money. greta: how many people were there? what was said and what was the reaction? >> we went to a town and country whole foods. there are a couple of different locations in st. louis. this was the kick start of what is going to be a rolling buycott across the country. dallas, texas had one.

arizona had one. everyone started at 6:00. within the first 30 minutes, we had over 300 people. the lines were packed. there were no more parts left. the lines were very long. the aisles were crammed. it was fantastic. we had a bunch of people that were in there and getting really good food. they were talking with each other about why they were there. they read the editorial in the wall street journal. they thought the points were fantastic. there were flabbergasted as to why anyone would want to punish the sky because he had a difference of opinion, an alternative viewpoint which is what the president asked for during the campaign. he said, if you have different ideas, i want to hear them. the sick and had a different idea. why is he being punished? -- the ceo had a different idea.

why is he being punished? greta: were these regulars are people who wanted to support the ceo? >> half and half. maybe they went to haul goods before but did not do so regularly. others -- maybe they went to wholefoods before but did not do so regularly. others want to make a habit to come here once a week or if you times a month and really incorporate stork into their buying routine. this man went on a limb for everybody, and we are going to support that. greta: are those -- were those of their that were boycotting the store? >> one guy in an obama t-shirt. i was kind of disappointed. we had unions protesting its last week. we thought because of that, there would be people that would turn now to boycott us.

only one guy. i had to give them credit for showing up. greta: i think you would like to see more. is there a strategy in mind? if you want to do this again or make it bigger, what is the plan? >> we would like to see the cap end nationwide. there are a lot of other t parties in other cities that are organizing right now to do the exact same thing that we did today in dallas tx and st. louis. it should be a rolling buyc ott. a lot of small-business owners are stepping up to the plate. we have several here that are coming forward and singing, we support free market principles. we do not think the government

needs to micromanage everything. it is with any small business owner that takes a stand for capitalism, free market principles, for having the government not micromanaging our lives. we will go out and support them for standing up and doing what is right. greta: the anke. will any of this effect whole foods in the long run? -- thank you. will any of this effect wholefoods in the long run? let's find out. it is not so much that the ceo has a plant different from the president. i am appalled that this is a guy who has an idea and the backlash against his expression has been so big. >> the way this story is about is pretty incredible.

the boycott was first announced and the people at whole foods were free to out about it. they were very defensive. they said it was the personal opinions of the ceo not the company. in the last few weeks, the boycott has fizzled. there is no evidence that it as hurt the company. it has not hurt the stocks. company sales are not down. there is no evidence that this has hurt them. i got an e-mail that was sent to a friend of mine who knows john little bit. this has turned out to be good publicity for this company and it is doing better than ever. greta: out of all the people that have come up with ideas for health-care reform, he is the one who actually put his money where his mouth is, because he has run a business.

he is not sitting on capitol hill thinking about it and thinking about what to do. here is a guide who has run a business and said, here is how to do it. i do not know if it is a good idea or not, but we should listen to him. >> we should. if you look at him as an employer, he is a good corporate citizen. he pays his workers higher than the union workers receive. he provides excellent medical benefits for his workers. greta: he does not take a salary. >> exactly. you would think the unions would be embracing someone like this. he pays high wages, the benefits, and yet the unions had joined the boycott against them because they do not like some of his ideas. why not embrace them? he has found a way to reduce health-care costs and cover his workers. greta: here is a good business

person. from what i can see so far, here is a guy who has tried to do the right thing. he gets punched right in the nose because he has a different idea and does not agree with the wisdom or lack thereof of someone else. kweisi as a practical experience of running a company. he has done -- he has the practical experience of running a company and doing all these things. anyone who speaks out what alternative ideas -- greta: i think he is a lefty. >> we hardly agree when we debate. the point is this is a guide less than the right thing. people are becoming unhinged because he has and i diaz -- an

idea that is not popular. i will not be surprised if we do not see these buycotters outnumbering the boycotters. that happens when you write a piece for the wall street journal. greta: thank you. up next, middle-class america and his deeply hurt by the mortgage crisis and then more cruelty sets in. you might be one of them being left out -- laughed at. you need to protect yourself. donald trump may be taking on scotland. are they angry at donald trump? trump? you'll love it so much, you'll send your old duster packing. ♪ love stinks! ♪ yeah! yeah! ♪ love stinks ♪

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>> from america's news

headquarters, a developing story from mexico. at this very hour, hurricane jimena is battering the balkan peninsula. it is downgraded to a category 3 storm. 115 mph winds. some of the tourists are being sheltered in boarded up hotels. more than 5000 other people have been evacuated. president obama is urging americans to prepare for another potentially deadly swine flu of a break. vaccination will be voluntary but is strongly recommended to take steps to prevent infection. it should be available next month. pregnant women, children and health clinic workers will get . now return to "on the record." >greta: do you sometimes wonder how some people can be so cruel,

and how the good people have suffered during the mortgage crisis, and now they're being laughed at. joining us is peter goodman, author of "past due." i was horrified reading about subprime mortgage people being loan fixers. >> hundreds of companies made up of former subprime mortgage brokers, people who have owned companies and been very successful, that are now selling bogus service that will help to get these people out of trouble. they profited from creating the crisis, and the false expectation that they can negotiate with the mortgage company for a better deal, collecting $3,400 up front, and

then disappearing. even a well-intentioned company has trouble and this particular company was marketing itself as a federal loan modification law center in orange county, california. according to the lawsuit they said that they were part of the federal government and that they were the good guys. they were very successful subprime mortgage brokers. >> they have the subprime mortgages and this went belly up, whether they got in this themselves, but the good americans found themselves in trouble and they go to this organization and say, can you help me take advantage of some of the government programs. that is where i am is scandalized. at least one of the company's was laughing at the people who

find themselves under water. >> we found a 22 year-old who was working in mortgage control and when the real-estate bubble went bust, people in orange county lost their jobs, and they hear about a new job, involving calling the same people who persuaded them to sign off on bad mortgages, offering them away out of this, collecting a 30% commission, and he was trained on how to work on the anxiety. and you realize that if you -- you will lose your home and i spoke with this company and the dead was bartending. the parents of three children

and we only have $1,200 left. on the other end of the phone is this guy at the federal loan loss center, and he says if you pay as, you do not have to worry. greta: there is also the recording where there are people who leave a voice messages and they would not get this and they would play back the voicemail among the group and they could laugh at the people who were furiously trying to find out what had happened to the money that they had fronted for these modifications. >> thousands of phone calls every day, people crying with their belongings in boxes in motels. they were wondering where the thousands of dollars worth, and unfortunately they would play these messages, over the speaker phone system and they would say, can you believe this person. this is an awful story.

greta: this is absolute rulcrue and an eye opening story. next, donald trump is getting heat from overseas. trump stepped on some toes. whose, coming up. and a mega mother is pregnant (pouring rain) i had a great time. me too. you know, i just got out of a bad relatio... it's okay. thanks. goodnight. goodnight. (door crashes in, alarm sounds) get out! (phone rings) hello? this is rick with broadview security.

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brought to you by the u.s. department of health and human services. greta: here is the best of the rest. you have heard about scotland and the pan-am killer. this time the news has to do with donald trump. he is going to expand his luxury

resort by 50 acres, if he can get them to sell. he can go to court and try a purchase order. he wants to negotiate with the people with no courts. several residents say they won't sell. this could get ugly. jon and kate have nothing on jim bob and michelle duggar. they have a big announcement. >> we found out that we are expecting our 19th child. >> oh my gosh. who would have thought it. how far along are you? congradulations. >> we are three months along. >> how are you feeling?

>> i'm feeling sick and tired, a good way to be feeling. i say that is a good way to be. good things are happening. greta: an illinois politician is raining on blagojevich's parade. if he is convicted of his crimes he will not profit from the book. the bill was sponsored and passed 12 days ago, barring politicians from profiting from crimes. this will only happen if the is proven corrupt. the governor has not been convicted. he has made money at public appearances and he needs to support his family and pay for his defense. he will be right here next

tuesday to go "on the record" in his first interview about the new book. this is one week from today. that is the best of the rest. still ahead, the last call.cp

greta: flash the studio lights. it is time for last call. was conan drunk last night? >> cheech and chong, wait a minute, are considering a musical on broadway. yeah. either that or they are giong to get stoned -- going to get stoned and see the lion king. you know what the name of the chitty -- i said that.

oh, shut up. you know what the name of it is, andy? >> cheech and chong's musical on broadway? [applause] [laughter] >> stop drinking before the show. >> it's monday, i needed a pick me up. on monday i need a little help. there's a musical with chong and cheech. [laughter] cheech and chong might to a musical on broadway. it is going to be called chitty chitty bong bong. >> alright, better luck next time. lights are blinking, a